Wesa and I have had somewhat of a conversation in the mix concerning religion, and I suppose what you'd call the nature thereof. She recently pointed me at an article.
This post is NOT researched, being a very personal, off the cuff and immediate response to the article/argument. You may well find inconsistencies here, but I've dealt with them elsewhere, or at least am aware of them and will tackle them at another time.
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Her email:
This has some good arguments/points regarding our previous discussions:
Direct quote from elsewhere: "Atheism is not a belief system. It is a singular position on one issue. Theism is the state of mind where you have a belief in a god. Atheism is a lack of that belief. There's no belief system. There's no dogma, there's no tenants, there's nothing that says Dennis and I will agree on anything other than whether or not a god exists. Everything else is up for grabs. And that becomes the subject of what kind of philosophical positions and systems you want to adopt, whether it's naturalism, rationalism, secular humanism...."
"Expanding on that, I ask: Is theism a religion? Of course not. Then why would atheism be one? Religions may build on a theistic stance as one of their central values, but theism itself is not a religion, it's a stance on a single question. Religion requires a system of beliefs, all tied together"
"Atheists do have a belief (I believe in no god), which is the standard people are using for "religion". Presence of a belief in god is the typical atheist's standard; presence of a belief of any sort is the standard used by those claiming atheism is a religion."
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full "article" here************************************
True, atheism is not a system of belief, it a position on a single issue.
Conversely, belief in god is not a system of belief, it is a position on single issue.
Catholicism is a system of belief (explanation).
Buddhism is a system of belief (explanation).
I'm going to have to concede here and revise some previous statements:
Atheism isn't a RELIGION, just like theism isn't a RELIGION. They are, however, TYPES of religions, as per my definition of what a religion is, namely any system of understanding or explanation that relies at any point upon FAITH.
By this definition, "science" is a TYPE OF ATHEIST RELIGION, or at least an atheist system of inquiry that in the end relies on religion for its continued existence.
I think part of the issue is that none of these various systems fit neatly into one single category.
I'm not confusing the word "religion" with the word "belief." I'm redefining the word "religion" to make it as practical as possible. Religion is the existence of faith in a concept, ANY concept, that is not (currently) provable. I believe in the existence of electricity, but electricity can be proven to exist, therefore making belief in it NOT a religious belief.
Catholics cannot prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the existence of their god, making their belief in his existence faith-base, making it a religious belief. Atheists cannot prove the non-existence of any deific presence beyond a shadow of a doubt, making that belief faith-based and therefore religious.
Off hand the only gray-area example I can think of is science, which has and continues to prove certain things about reality. There is, however, a belief in the scientific community in the existence of a scientific principle behind existence, which they are as yet unable to prove. Science is the offspring of and the step beyond religion. Science then becomes a religious system by virtue of it's belief in its own ultimate relevance, rather than a belief in any specific final explanation. Science is a slippery one.
Religion is not confined to a belief in the presence of a deity. Animism, for example, is an atheist religion (though I highly mystical one).
I'm losing this.
Belief is the acceptance of a concept, WITH OR WITHOUT proof.
Faith is belief lacking proof.
Religion is a belief in something that is not or cannot be proven to be true, given some form of systematic approach.
Atheism is just as concerned with an explanation of the nature of creation as theism. They simply approach it without a Sky-Daddy.
Do you believe in god/a god? : No : Prove it :
Do you believe that there is no god/are no gods?: Yes : Prove it :
Do you believe in electricity? : Yes: Prove it : *flips light switch*
Personally, I'm not terribly concerned with religious systems such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc. The problem we seem to be having is that these specific systems have been so ubiquitous for so long that they've come to BE the definition of religion. This is somewhat akin to having lived in the ghetto so long that gangstas and black people are the same thing, or watching Fox News for so long that all Muslims are terrorists, when in reality the one is just a certain type within the larger set.
Religion has been with us since we started this human adventure. At no point in history has there ever been any indication that it is going to go away. Self proclaimed atheists are just as convinced and fanatical as the Catholics, who are just as convinced and fanatical as the Buddhists, who are just as convinced and fanatical as the Muslims, and not a single one of any of them can prove their point. With this in mind, one has to wonder if religion itself is a necessary, intrinsic part of being human.
If this is so, it may be time to try a different approach to it, to make it work FOR us rather than using it to pit ourselves against each other.
The simple fact remains that EVERYTHING EXISTS, and therefore it had to have come from somewhere or something. Some spark set all this in motion. If you want to believe it was Random Chance, fine, go pray to Math. If you think the Sky-Daddy did it, fine, go pray to the Sky-Daddy. You're welcome to your personal Spaghetti Monster, but don't forget for a moment that, as yet, YOU CANNOT PROVE IT, and therefore have FAITH in your explanation of things.
More to come, I'm sure.